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What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by Ethical Musician - every little helps » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:43 pm

I know Altiverb and others make better reverbs than Waves, but what are the best alternatives to what I used to view as quite unique plug ins to Waves ie: the Maxx Bass and the L2/L3?

As a long time producer/musician, Israel's latest actions in Gaza have made me make this (admittedly small) protest.

As such I will no longer be purchasing Waves or where possible any other Israeli based goods or services. The reason I am posting here as I am interested in the opinions of the best alternatives to these audio plug ins.

(I appreciate the irony there are a lot of Waves cracks btw)
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by EnlightenedHand » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:58 pm

Waves as a company has nothing to do with Israel as a country. If you want to boycott the company, that's fine. Only if you're going to make a stand against the political/military actions of a country, perhaps you ought to do it in a way that is at least remotely correlated.

The notion that because a company is operated and owned by citizens of a certain country is thus, based on those facts alone, somehow responsible for the actions of that county's government is absurd.

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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by Steve Hill » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:11 pm

Liz, I don't want to get into a long off-topic debate, but Waves is an Israeli company, paying Israeli taxes to an Israeli government, and for that reason I will not have their products in my studio - that's been my personal ethical position for the last 10 years. That and their WUP ("you've bought the product, now buy it twice") system. And their twee little ban piracy campaign "on behalf of the industry" (ahem) founded on entrapment and New York lawyers generating contingency fee law suits for themselves. Oh and finally the stuff is overpriced by at least 300% compared with the competition.

Otherwise I'm sure it's a fine product.

Suffice to say in answer to the OP's question you can do most of it with a UAD-2 card and nobody listening to the end result will ever moan that it's a shame you did not use Waves.
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by Andy McBain » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:23 pm

I don't think there's anything particularly unique or special about the plugins you've mentioned.

An alternative to Maxx Bass, which enhances bass frequencies using harmonics, would be PSP Mixbass, included in the PSP Mixpack.

An alternative to L3, which (please correct me if I'm wrong!) is just a mulitband limiter, would be Sonalksis MultiLimit, though there are probably more out there.

They're also much cheaper ;)

I'm not sure about my ethical stance on the issue, but I always found the Waves stuff a bit overrated anyway!
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by Ethical Musician - every little helps » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:29 pm

Liz,

I would boycott another of Israel's great inventions of the UZI if I was a trigger happy maniac who dropped bombs on schools. But I am a musician, so I'll stick to Waves for now.

Small actions can have big results if a lot of people do them. Sanctions against SA eventually helped a more positive outcome.

Thanks for the Maxx bass alternative.
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by comradec » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:36 pm

I too condemn the actions of the Israeli terrorist regime in the occupied territories of Palestine. Not just the current military strikes but several decades of apartheid-style racism and forcible dispossession of the indigenous population. That some of those who've been oppressed by Israeli government policies turn to authoritarian Islamist ideology (not the same thing as Islamic belief) in their desperation to defend themselves should surprise no-one and the current intervention is more likely to increase support for Hamas than undermine it.

I tend to avoid Israeli products too but I'm not sure there's any consistency in that approach. After all, the Israeli regime is actively supported and armed by the United States - indeed it could not do what is doing now without US help - but I haven't boycotted products originating in the States, whether they're music technology related or not.

Moreover, I wholeheartedly condemn the military outrages of our own terrorist regime, the UK government, in Iraq, Afghanistan and numerous other places where British involvement continues to be a malign influence, but I'm not boycotting stuff produced here.

I'm not dismissing consumer or cultural boycotts as a tactic - I think they probably made a difference in South Africa - but they are problematic because they give the impression that the boycotted are necessarily worse than the non-boycotted, and that's not always true. The Israeli government simply couldn't do what it's doing without US support. And the UK government won't say or do anything that seriously contradicts US foreign policy, which makes it complicit in these outrages too.
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by JeffB » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:44 pm

A mate of mine, with more money than sense, has just about all of the Waves stuff in his studio and I've been rather unimpressed with most of it (especially considering the price).

As regards the Israelis, they're as usual doing their biggest kid in the playground bully boy routine(along with their even bigger mate the USA to fall back on if anyone stands up to them). Like all bullies they'll get their arses kicked eventually at which point they'll probably fall back on that old chestnut, the holocaust guilt trip.
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by Colin J Morris » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:05 pm

I don't buy Waves plugins, but it's really because they don't knock my socks off. I'm fine with the ones I have.

I love UA's plugins, but I'm not going to stop buying them because of my loathing of the US' foreign policy. Likewise the Intel chip in my PC.

What's the difference between Israel and the US anyway?

(runs for cover)
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by . . . Delete This User . . . » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:09 pm

i wonder if there are a million bands out there of other nationalities and official faiths , boycotting Steve's studio because he's English, and runs a business in England, pays english taxes, and obeys english law?

after all, England has an official state religion of christianity, helped create israel, and directly or indirectly continues to support Israel , not to mention illegally invading iraq... and so on...

irrespective of the fact that Steve utterly abhors both organised religion based Christianity and The Support of the Israeli state, and assorted other evils perpetrated by our government.....

by all means dislike , or even boycott Waves because of their pricing, their support policies, their business practices, and the quality , or lack thereof of the product.... all quite valid reasons and fair comment,.

but could you ALL please leave the rest of this oh so ethical , holier than thou, bullshit at the door, it has no place in this forum.

(For the record, I am NOT a waves Fan... i think the majority of their product is at best lack lustre , and ALL over priced.... SOME of it is rather good actually.... but by no means all, or even IMHO the majority of it... and I absolutely detest their business practices... both in terms of support and the distinctly underhanded nature of the whole "entrapment" approach..... and for THOSE reasons alone, I'm happy not to buy it unless i absolutely have to..... )

right, i'll crawl back under my rock now....... sorry to have disturbed you all.
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by Steve Hill » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:40 pm

idris y draig wrote:
i wonder if there are a million bands out there of other nationalities and official faiths , boycotting Steve's studio because he's English, and runs a business in England, pays english taxes, and obeys english law?

I don't honestly care. I spent more than half my life boycotting South Africa, and not banking with Barclays, and avoiding Cape pears and supermarkets which stocked them, and all the rest, and then Nelson Mandela was freed and elected President.

If you don't try, nothing changes. I'd sooner my studio went bankrupt than I compromised my principles.
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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by tea for two » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:01 am

Must admit when UK armed forced on the back of majority public voting invaded Iraq, i seriously considered leaving england.

Never mind the cowardly government, for me, how could so called decent people who would abhor their own country being invaded and would never vote for such,
quite agreeably vote for just such a thing on another country with all the death and destruction an invasion brings on the civillian populace.

I wrestled with my conscience, i dont why i stayed what resoning, i think family reasons ... responsibilities.

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Re: What are the ethical alternatives to Israel's WAVES plug ins?
Post by Doublehelix » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:10 am

Steve: No one is asking anyone to compromise their principles, and I certainly applaud your dedication to them. I think what Idris said (in a nutshell) that this is not the place for folks to voice those opinions. This thread is full of political commentary rather than full of information related to "Music Recording Technology".

Since there is no longer an off-topic area, this thread needs to be locked, or pulled back onto a subject that relates to MRT.